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Summer, 2010
(full run down to come soon…)
Questions
+ Where will the drip/oil pan be placed & constructed?
-> At this time (3/20), I’m not 100% sure what type of sump I have, I did measure and found that it was smaller than the measurements. I’m now thinking it was smaller due to the point from which I measured from. The manual shows the measurement coming from just above the nut on the mounts, but I think I measured from the angle iron’s for the mount bolt holes. Leading me to be fairly certain I have a shallow sump. That being said, I think I should go for a height of 32.1 cm (which is 7cm larger than the standard sump @ 25.1 cm). This way, if I do have the room to access if the 1% chance I do have it and I have the room that I would prefer to have with the oil plan in place. This means that if I have the shallow sump, I’ll probably have something like 12 cm of sump sticking below the engine mounts with another 20cm of clearance between the engine and the drip pan….WAIT…
…now, looking in the boat itself (rather than jus relying on measurements), I can see that 32.1 is quite deep in the bilge. Now, I would like to place the drip pan at 23cm from the top of the engine mount to the juncture of the hull and the engine mounts. Here’s the different variables that affect this design problem:
- Raw-water Seacock – How can I access this to be able to open and close the valve without being hindered by the drip pan? When I was in the boat, I moved the raw-water engine sea-cock around and it had quite a free placement area. This means when placing a limit with the oil pan I need to consider how deep I have to move the sea-cock in order to freely move the handle open and close. At this time, I plan to have the seacock’s handle facing starboard when open and forward when closed, with the handle on top of the valve (previously I had considered it being on the side. On this same note, I’m not sure if I’d be able to fit a much larger seacock than the 3/4″ as when a 90 deg. elbow is added it will be very tight business.
- High-capacity Pump – How can I remove it with the drip pan stringers in place? If the oil pan is removable, I might be able to fit the pump out through the pans negative space when removed. There will be some space between the dip pan and the diesel tank, however it’s variable at this time. I also think that the oil pan will be high enough up that the pump could be pulled out an angle. Essentially, as long as I don’t go too-low, this shouldn’t be much of a concern and that isn’t my plan right now.
- Low-capacity, Diaphragm Pump – How can I can access to and also have a place to mount the diaphragm pump? The oil pan will be at the base of the mounts, which should leave some space for the diaphragm pump to mount on the engine mounts or something. I have made the mounting location of the diaphragm pump something to look into, but it’s mount location won’t affect the drip pan.
- Low-capacity Switch – There is a stick attachment that connect to the pump and the switch, however the stick can be made in all sorts of creative ways so it’s not something I’m worried about at this time.
- Hoses – How can I gain access to the hoses to order them or inspect them? I don’t think this will be much of a problem as all hoses are fairly easy to get to.
- Waterlift Muffler – Adding a drip pan effectively means that there would be no option for the waterlift muffler in the bilge. This made me finalize my decision to put the muffler below the cockpit, therefore there is no longer an issue.
- Size of Pan – The sump is 13.7cm wide. It’s length, however, isn’t provided by Beta. I subtracted 29.4cm (the only measurement that involved the length of the sump at all) and subtracted it from 58.2 (overall engine length) and was left with 28cm. This 28cm would be the max-max size and is probably actually around 18cm long.
So, with the above variables understood, I had a pretty good feel that the design of the drip pan wouldn’t run into any issues and I should feel free to design away. So I went up to the boat to take a look at things…
-> Well, I guess I lost track of this one as I came back to this on 4/4 (4:43 am). I have definitely decided to add an oil pan and at this time I think it will look similar to what I drew on page 62 of the 2nd Notebook. I have added an oil pan as something I need to purchase as well as the project to the projects list.
+ Will I build a drip pan?
-> According to Practical Sailor, a pan is a good idea. They said “The pan should not be level, but should be tilted either forward or aft-depending on whether you have better access to the front or back of the engine-so that any oil spilled or leaked will run into an accessible location. The plywood should be glassed over lightly to provide an oil proof barrier before installing. It is also glassed to the inside of the engine beds, and a dam made at the low end of the pan. A drip pan doesn’t need to be very deep, since massive spills are rare. A deep pan, however, will hold liquid at steep angles of heel, helping keep the bilges oil-free in all conditions. A little engine oil or diesel fuel slopping around the bilge along with the other grunge that gathers there can make disgusting mess. Also, it isn’t particularly good for your bilge pumps”
Up until this time (2/14), this wasn’t something I had actively considered, however it’s been something on the back of my mind. I’ll have to continue to give it some more thought.
-> Stanley said it’s advisable to install a pan, because if you have an issue you catch all the oil instead of it falling into the bilge and smelling bad. Also, the coast guard really like it if you catch it, because then you aren’t pumping into the ocean and into protected waters.
-> On 3/20 I spoke with Eric and he gave me the following advice:
I could build in a permanent pan, however the pan should be able to slide in and out for cleaning purposes.
Use absorbent pads to be able to soak up any leaking engine oil
The question is do I, in this application, need the oil pan for structural reasons? Eric says these look pretty bomber and considering the Beta is only 13.5hp, my engine will likely shake the mounts much. He mentioned that I should remember that the engine will normally be running 9 – 10hp
I should be sure that I can get into the oil pan to clean it.
So, at this point, I can now not worry abut building the oil pan for structural reasons and instead focus on it’s utility. I also have answered that yes, I will build a drip pan.
+ How do I know if my engine will be able to be run at 28 degrees for 2 hours?
-> This is a requirement when in a gale.
-> As of 3/16, with my engine planning thus far I believe this will be possible. I will have the siphon break above the 12″ requirement and the engine will be securely bolted to the engine mounts with all fittings well attached and the exhaust will be well above the waterline. The only thing I’m a little worried about would be the mushroom vents taking on a fair amount of water during that time. If this does occur, then I will have to accept the fact that some water will be getting into the engine compartment which isn’t ideal, but that’s just how it is during these emergency like conditions. I could back-out on my current plans to use mushroom ventilators so that I could add a dorade or maybe build a dorade specifically for the mushroom vents, however I hope to rarely be in these conditions and if I am, the worst issue will be water coming into the engine compartment which would be trouble, but nothing to change all plans for.
+ Should I use a metal stringer, attached to the engine mount, or is ok to just simply use inserts for the engine mounts?
-> This is a good question, and it could really change how my engine mounts come together if I decide to add a metal stringer to the mix. Here are some of my current concerns:
- I believe I counted on there being no stringer below the engine mounts in order for it to fit properly, there may be some room, but not much.
- How wide to make the stringers (since engine mounts are quite wide, but feet aren’t)
- What format of stringers (L shaped, sloped, etc.)
-> I asked Stanley from Beta Marine about this (3/10). He said don’t some folks do angles, some don’t. He told me a story about a customer who had mounts put in by a yard. They overbuilt the mounts and it ended up costing him a lot, but the mounts were built for a very heavy engine and the Beta is very light so it was really overkill If I want to use metal for the brackets I should use angle aluminum, use 1/2” plate. However in the end, he said he has definitely seen folks not use the angle iron and so I think I can feel safe to use the method that Tim Lackey did with the female bolts. This is great news!!
Research
- I will be installing a Beta diesel in my Cheoy Lee Frisco as soon as the weather warms up. I drilled oversize holes for the engine mounts into the fiberglassed teak stringers and filled the holes with West System epoxy and then inserted stainless lag bolts. I coated the lag bolts with a car past wax to prevent the epoxy from bonding to the bolts so that I could remove them. Later, when dry fitting, I noticed that a couple of the lag bolts did not feel like they would tighten down with any authority, and were perhaps stripped….inserts I’ve used have a 9/16-12 (note: originally this read 9/16-24, which was incorrect) external thread, for which I tap the hole in the wood using the appropriate tool. I set them in epoxy during final installation. (http://www.plasticclassicforum.com/forum/)
- Epoxy is dandy stuff but does not really bond to steel; it bonds to the unevennesses on the steel. Also, the steel will expand and contract with temperature, a cyclical source of which is bolted thereto; the wood and epoxy beds will be expanding and contracting with moisture…HOWEVER, there’s an answer to this… MetlWeld Epoxy Adhesive MetlWeld is a super tough epoxy adhesive designed to bond metal and other dissimilar materials such as stainless steel, galvanized steel, aluminum, copper, glass, ceramic neoprene rubber and most porous services. Features: It will cure at temperatures as low as 50°F, MetlWeld will bond metals to metal, wood, stone, concrete, and even glass (http://www.plasticclassicforum.com/forum/)
- When I make up stringers I use a stainless angle. I drill holes for the engine mounts and weld nuts onto the under side of stringer to bolt the motor mounts onto. Since these are going onto existing stringers there is always a strip of metal embedded into the old stringers that I drill and tap, that way I can bolt the new stringers on using two 3/8″ bolts along with epoxy. be sure to use oversized washers or another alum. plate for a backing plate for the horizontal bolts – Definitely glass in. L Bracket distributes the load to a larger area which is a good thing. Inserts are very localized pinpointing all that torque into four/eight fairly small areas. (Ben Thomas, Beta Dealer)
Product List
- _?_# __” Female Bolt Inserts (for engine mounts)
- Oil Pan (found, bought or custom stainless steel)